What do you all think of this? (from the esai mailing list) I personaly think Graham Hancock is full of bere kubet.


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From: amde zion <amde1314@****.com>
Date: Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:36am
Subject: KNIGHT TEMPLARS AND EMPEROR LALIBELA

Dear ESAI members
I recently read the book by Graham Hancock
entitled The "sign and the seal".In his book he
claimed that Templars were involved in the
construction of the rock hewn churchs of Lalibela.How
do you think the possibility of his claim?Is it
possible that all the churchs were built at similar
time by a single emperor?I expect your comments.
AmdeZion


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"Reality is which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick

[quote="nyalasmoke"]What do you all think of this? (from the esai mailing list) I personaly think Graham Hancock is full of bere kubet.


Hehehehe…ahhhh, oh my! Nee, that should be word of the week..

I would say there is a possiblity that there were people other than Ethiopians who took part in building the churches. In our long history most of the advisors that our emperors and empresses had were from middle east, central asia, north africa, and southern europe.

Plus the history of Lalibela say that he lived in Jerusalem for many years, that was when we got the Der Sultan Monastry from the Turkish pasha.

what i'm saying is that i wouldn't be surprised.

Peace.


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“Harsh but Fair” … Homer Simpson

Why is it that anytime there is anything African, weather it is Art, Philosophy or civilization we start asking if it came from somewhere else? This is a bunch of BS.

I'm not saying there is no sharing of information ~ there has always been sharing of information between every civilizations.. The Romans leanrned from the Egyptians, the Greek learned from the Turks, the Turks leanr from the Chineses, the Chinese from the Indians, the indians from the aliens.. blah blah blah.... everybody learns from everybody else.. sharing of intellegence or even spying on other culutres is normal; but that doesn't mean the people who built it did not build it. But what is being suggested is absurd...

And Godanaw.. I dont' know what the hell to say about you... What's the matter with you? You seem to always enjoy anything that knocks Ethiopoia, so Whatever dude! . I don't even know if you realy are Ethiopian; for all I have seen of you; you act like a Banda. I'm starting to believe some of the previous suggestions of you being a Shabia impostering as an Ethiopian.

E-x-c-u-s-e you! Ene iko yemigermegne, why is it soo hard for a lot of African's to give credit to ourselves? You should be surprised, dag on it!

Just because they couldn't figure out how it was built, the assumption that a non-African helped out is just ridiculous.

True there might have been a slight chance that help might have been needed to build it, but why is the example of Sudanese (Nubians), Egyptians, or Kenyan's not in the equation? Why does it always have to be from outside Africa?


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IN GOD WE TRUST!

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

I think we are all passionate about Ethiopia, except that I raise certain questions that need to be discussed.

I'm not saying that Africans did not build it. The fact that it is in Ethiopia suggests that Ethiopians built it. The question is if it was influenced by someone else? And I think Lalibela's journey to Jerusalem has a lot to do with it. We didn't see anything like it prior to his return.

About the advisors and influence coming out of Africa, recall the following.

In the ancient era Ethiopia was considered a strong empire, one of the super powers of Africa. Because of that and our "superior complexity" we never dealt with any African leaders or group of people. We dealt with the super powers and all of them were outside of Africa.

History tells us that Emperor Lebene Dingil asked the Portuguese to help fight Gragn Mohammed. When Ate Fassiledes built the Gondar castles, he got design prints from India and Armenia. If you think I'm wrong please go to Gondar and visit the Castles, there are two prints preserved in King Dawit's building.

Atse Tewodros didn't even like the people around Sudan that he gave Kessela and Gedarif to the British Empire saying they don't look like us. Again, pick an Ethiopian history book and you'll find it. Atse Yohannes (Yohannes IV) signed a treaty with Britain to give passage to their Turkish troops to Sudan via Adal and Afar regions of Tigrai. The Sudanese Mahadi army ("Derbush") invaded Ethiopia because of it.

These few picks suggest that we'd rather deal with the super powers in getting everything from arts and science to military and technology support. The only leader who tried to get support from our neighbors was Lij Iyassu and you all know what happened to him. He tried to establish a resistance movement with the Somali resistance fighters to drive out Italy, France and Britain from Djibouti, Ogaden, and all of Somalia. But the rest of the country wouldn’t budge and preferred to listen to the colonial powers.

I’m just the gatekeeper here. You’re all very emotional and many times jump to conclusions without the support of history and reality.

In regards to the Churches at Lalibela, the legend says that Angels built it. That is what the EOTC books say. That is even worse than saying people outside of Africa influenced it. I’m a follower of the church but don’t think that any spirit built it. Man built everything even the holiest of the holy items, the Arc of the Covenant.

That is what I have to say about that.

Peace.


p.s. If any of you would like to have a dialogue in person, let's do it when we meet in DC this winter. I'm up for it.


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“Harsh but Fair” … Homer Simpson

Well....let's reason logic with logic.

godanaw is saying we did have a lot of interaction with other peoples/civilizaitons, so there could be a chance that others were involved in constructing our most ancient buildings.

now....just as quickly I could ask if Axum, Lalibela, Fasilides, the Walls of Harrer and all of that being built in such close proximity proves that the skill is all ours. For the structures that I mentioned, all are constructed primarily of stone.

godanaw,

even with prints or stylistic design qualities from other super powers of the time...I would still be inclined to think that construction with rock is a skill of the Ethiopian people at the time.

now, for you to get all tripped up about Lalibela churches being built with angels is messed up. why does man have to build everything? according to your line of thought, I better prepare myself for you saying that Mary could not have been a virgin.......your gonna tell me that SHE had to make Jesus!!!

What are you saying then?

I am not sure why everybody is attacking Godanaw. He hasn't said anything that is offesnsive. If you have a logical answer for his comment then go a head and spit it. All I see is BS. For ESATBOY's comment concerning Mary, one way or another she is not a virgin. Either she slept with Joseph, an angel (hahahah) or the Sprit (holy or evil I don't know).

I'm sorry to bring the Angels and religion into this. I brought it up because the Church documents are the only physical evidence that exist about the people involved in building the 11 rock hewn churches. All other documents were destroyed during the Gragn Mohammed war.

And please don't bring the virginity of Our Lady The Virgin Mary to this discussion. I do not need physical evidence to believe that she was a virgin, that is faith and it doesn't need proof.

As for history, physical evidence is required. That was why I referred to the Church documents. For history to accept that Angels built the Lalibela churches, you must first prove that Angels exist. And you can't do that. Hence you go to the next alternative, man.

Harar is also a very unique place; it looks like a Turkish city in Ethiopia. A physical evidence to suggest Turkish influence is the existence of two or three villas that are called the ‘Pasha Residence’. Most buildings, sewage canals, baths, and the wall itself imply an out of Ethiopia architecture of that time. Do you know that it is the only walled city in Ethiopia, also the only city of that time not on a mountain? If you’ve read the history book called, “Ethiopian History: From Atse Lebne Dengil to Atse Tewodros” you would have more idea about the settlers of Harar at that time.

For me greatness is to see Ethiopian influence outside of Ethiopia.


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“Harsh but Fair” … Homer Simpson

What's next? The Russians fought the Battle of Adawa for us?

No they did not !!


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“Harsh but Fair” … Homer Simpson

I'm sure they did.. I don't think We could have done it alone. Well, if they didn't do it - may be they influenced us and showed us the how's.

NAZ,

You don't have to procrastinate.

By the way in his letter to Menilik II, the Russian Tsar expressed his saddness that a so-called 'christian' nation like Italy would want to invade another truly christian country, Abyssinia.
You can find this letter inside the book, "Emperor Menilik", by the late Paulos Gnogno.


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“Harsh but Fair” … Homer Simpson