Gay Marriages

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Yes

35%

[ 7 ]

No

30%

[ 6 ]

I don't give a damn

35%

[ 7 ]

Total Votes: 20

Tue Nov 18, 2003 7:18 pm   
http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/11/18/samesex.marriage.ruling/index.html

If you follow current events, I'm sure by now you have heard of the Massachusetts ruling on same sex marriages. Well, I figured this was going to happen sooner or later; considering all the movement by the gay community and its effect on mainstream opinion. The percentage of Americans supporting same sex marriages is increasing year after year, and I think that eventually it will get to the point where the majority accepts it. If history can be a lesson - a movment as strong as this always succedes over time.

One of the major arguments of the gay activist is that the laws are drafted based on Judeo/Christian beliefs and therefore discriminates all other beliefs. To some extent, this is true ~

For argument purpose, let's remove the Judeo/Christian beliefs and entertain the law... What would it be like? What beliefs would the law be based on? What will constitute right from wrong? How would we answer the following question?

Absent religious beliefs, is homosexuality ok?
Absent religious beliefs, is it ok for homosexuals to adopt children?

In the absence of the Judeo/Christian beliefs or any religious beliefs, we would have to default to the Law of Nature. For example, in the law of nature 2 hydrogen atoms bound to 1 oxygen atom always make water (H2O.) This mix makes water not when or if, not if we feel happy or bad about it, if we vote for or against it - the result is always Water. Guaranteed! That is the law of nature, it is not up for debate, it just happens. Let’s take this nature of law one step further into my topic.

Natural law also gives you the freedom to be whoever you want to be, do whatever you want to be. So, if you want to be gay - you can be gay. marry a man, a woman or both. So, let's just say that we honor this.... and allow and recognize same sex marriages.

Now - the Natural law gives a man and a woman the ability to give life - they can make a baby. And nature has it no other way. Just like H2 and O always make water and no other way – only a man and a woman can make a baby – and no other way. This is not something we can debate about, or vote to change it. Nature has designed Life to always be a result of a man and a woman. Where there is a man and woman together, there is life. This is the natural design of life as we know it.

So, if we honor the natural laws, we would have to honor the roles of the male and female in providing life. This would mean that we as a society recognize the rights of homosexuals to marry, but keep the responsiblity of parenting children to men and/or women. Adoption of children must never be allowed in a way that goes against the natural flow of life - no matter what religion or belief we have.

If one is gay by choice, one should just live the life the way that makes him/her happy. But must recognize nature's intenet and not be selfish in wanting to adopt a child.

If one is gay in nature (biologically), wouldn't one accept that as nature's intention and know that nature did not mean for that person to produce life thereby forfiting their role as a parent?

So, I think if homosexuals understand and accept this; we could have a compromise that will benefit our society.

Any thoughts?

ESATboy
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Wed Nov 19, 2003 3:58 am   
is there a potential for conflict between state and federal laws concerning this? should this be a state's right to decide?

sorry...I barely made it through government and poli. sci in undergrad


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Wed Nov 19, 2003 11:13 am   
Nahom ~ you're right, there may be a potential conflict between the state and the feds as always. However, what is interesting is that neither the state nor federal laws specifically define marriage as a union between a man and a woman “only.” This gives the lawyers on both side something to play with. This is what the Bush Administration and some states are trying to avoid with their current attempt to amend a definition of marriage into the constitution. Unless marriage is defined in such a way, it will continue to leave room for the courts to interpret the law in a way that favors the same sex marriage activist.

~ naz

Aralia-Racemosa
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Wed Nov 26, 2003 5:30 pm   
Quote:
For argument purpose, let's remove the Judeo/Christian beliefs and entertain the law... What would it be like? What beliefs would the law be based on? What will constitute right from wrong? How would we answer the following question?


It should not be based on any religion. If something one does affect another negatively, it should be considered wrong (e.g > theft, murder, rape...etc.) Homosexuality doesnot affect others negatively. I don't know why the church is trying to ban same sex marriage. Is it to please God? If so, Doesn't God see the heart? Ever read of Matthew 5:27? > "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." It is the same here. Whether they get married or not, if the homo desire is in their heart, God sees them as gay. So, what is the point of banning same sex marriage?


ene bebekule- I don't care if they marry or not, yerasachew hasab new! But i still think it is a sin... and sinning isn't illegal.


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Wed Nov 26, 2003 6:29 pm   
[quote="Aralia-Racemosa"]
Quote:
ene bebekule- I don't care if they marry or not, yerasachew hasab new! But i still think it is a sin... and sinning isn't illegal


I agree with you bro - but what do you think about the adoption of children. If you let homosexuals marry, they will be able to adopt children. What do you think about children who do not have a choice and get adapted into homosexual marriages?

When you talk about the issue of children, the same sex marriage issue becomes more than just an issue of consenting adults.

peace


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Aralia-Racemosa
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Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:08 pm   
Quote:
I agree with you bro


am not a bro


Quote:
but what do you think about the adoption of children. If you let homosexuals marry, they will be able to adopt children. What do you think about children who do not have a choice and get adapted into homosexual marriages?

When you talk about the issue of children, the same sex marriage issue becomes more than just an issue of consenting adults.


It is better to be adopted by homosexuals than goin hungry or being brought up in a foster home...

on the other hand demo, it is wrong cuz the kids will think homosexuality is okay....

so, neutral (hope you don't read my sig which was "There is no neutral ground in this universe; every split second, every square inch is claimed by God and counter claimed by Satan. )


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O LORD, thou art my father; i'm the clay, and thou my potter; and I the work of thy hand.
Thu Dec 04, 2003 11:13 am   
Quote:
It is better to be adopted by homosexuals than goin hungry or being brought up in a foster home... on the other hand demo, it is wrong cuz the kids will think homosexuality is okay....

so, neutral (hope you don't read my sig which was "There is no neutral ground in this universe; every split second, every square inch is claimed by God and counter claimed by Satan. )


ha ha... can't make up your mind on this.... You know they say - being neutral is like supporting the cause. What is the saying.. something like... "Silence is agreement.... " or something like that....

Anyway ~ if same-sex marrieg is oked.. What about plural marriages? What do you think of a man wanting to marry multiple wives legally or a woman wanting to legally marry multiple men? Why does the law limit marriage b/n two people only?
holla
Naz


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Thu Dec 04, 2003 4:29 pm   
NAZ wrote
Quote:
~ if same-sex marrieg is oked.. What about plural marriages? What do you think of a man wanting to marry multiple wives legally or a woman wanting to legally marry multiple men? Why does the law limit marriage b/n two people only?
holla



Let me put it this way, I'm all about free will... Do whatever you want to do without physically hurting others. Polygamy(easy for me to say cuz i've no intention of marrying : ) ) , sucide, mercy-killing... etc should be okay, legally that is. Those decisions should be left for the individuals. It would be better if they don't do it. But, if they wanna do it > that should be their biz! YOu wanna die? die! Wanna marry 10 wives/husbands, go ahead!

from the spiritual view point demo, they are sin... and like I always say, sinning isn't illegal.


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O LORD, thou art my father; i'm the clay, and thou my potter; and I the work of thy hand.
Fri Dec 05, 2003 9:43 am   
Quote:
Let me put it this way, I'm all about free will... Do whatever you want to do without physically hurting others. Polygamy(easy for me to say cuz i've no intention of marrying : ) )


You're a trip, but for real, I'm curious to know why?


Quote:
from the spiritual view point demo, they are sin... and like I always say, sinning isn't illegal.


What about Abraham's two women and all the other men in the Old Testimens who had multiple wives? If its a sin, then why did God allow Abraham to go sleep with the other chic so he can have a baby?

holla
Naz


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wronglane
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Fri Dec 05, 2003 11:10 am   
Aralia-Racemosa wrote:
on the other hand demo, it is wrong cuz the kids will think homosexuality is okay....


what's wrong is that you think that.


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Fri Dec 05, 2003 12:41 pm   
wronglane wrote:
Aralia-Racemosa wrote:
on the other hand demo, it is wrong cuz the kids will think homosexuality is okay....


what's wrong is that you think that.


What is wrong with saying 2+2 equals 3??? ......it is the wrong answer! Same reason why it is will be wrong for kids to think homosexuality is okay. If you have the ability to change, and prove, the answer to be other number besides 4, then you izzzzzz the man.


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Fri Dec 05, 2003 1:39 pm   
man, here we go again on the same argument ...

langano, when you're saying it's wrong, you're basing everything on a lot of things that you somehow grew up thinking were given truths:
1. religion is a free-for-all beautiful thing.
2. marriage -> reproduction -> family.
3. parenthood (NOT reproduction) should be limited to heterosexuals (refer back to 1 and 2)

yo, honestly, human beings, and the human brain are purely amazing. our potential as a species is goddamn mind-numbing, yet we choose to reduce and limit our own perspectives to something as insipid and confining as religion and dogma ... mts ...

on the real though, i'm just gonna sit back and let this thread die out ... i don't think i can honestly make my points any clearer than i have in the past, and if they haven't been persuasive enough, well ... to each his own ... we can agree to disagree and move on ...

peace.


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Fri Dec 05, 2003 1:47 pm   
langano wrote:
If you have the ability to change, and prove, the answer to be other number besides 4, then you izzzzzz the man.


langano, there's this thing in math called "bases"
2+2 is only 4 if you're using base-4 or above.
2+2 = 1 if you're using base-3, for instance.

you get my point

my math is kinda fuzzy, so if anyone feels compelled to elaborate/correct/add/refute, feel free to do so ...


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Aralia-Racemosa
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Fri Dec 05, 2003 2:13 pm   
NAZ wrote:
Quote:
Let me put it this way, I'm all about free will... Do whatever you want to do without physically hurting others. Polygamy(easy for me to say cuz i've no intention of marrying : ) )


You're a trip, but for real, I'm curious to know why?



Why what?

Quote:
Quote:
from the spiritual view point demo, they are sin... and like I always say, sinning isn't illegal.



What about Abraham's two women and all the other men in the Old Testimens who had multiple wives? If its a sin, then why did God allow Abraham to go sleep with the other chic so he can have a baby?

holla
Naz


We are under a new testament... most things have changed.

But like it says in the bible, for whom much is given much is expected. People who were in the time of the old testament were not given much... and the HOlYSPIRIT, who enables you to live a godly/holy life, didn't dwell in them but in a temple/sacred place. But now, in the new testament era, we are his sanctuary... and because he lives in us, we can do many things... live a superior/godly life than them. They were expected to have common sense>(DON'T KILL/STEAL... etc), but we are expected to imitate Jesus (not just 'don't commit adultery,' but also don't lust.)

we are given much , so much is expected of us.



That is what I think

now, I've a question for you. Do you know that it was a sin/wrong wearing a cloth that was made of two material (eg. cotton and linen) Read deutronomy 22: 10-11. Why was wearing a garment made of two material wrong then, but not now?


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O LORD, thou art my father; i'm the clay, and thou my potter; and I the work of thy hand.
Aralia-Racemosa
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Fri Dec 05, 2003 2:22 pm   
wronglane wrote:
Aralia-Racemosa wrote:
on the other hand demo, it is wrong cuz the kids will think homosexuality is okay....


what's wrong is that you think that.


It might not have a "good" reason. But I am sure there are many things that you consider wrong without giving any good reason... like beastility, incest, eating human flesh(remember that? )


But mine have a spiritual reason. It might not make sense for mere men/peepz who see only from the physical view point...


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One day in retrospect, the years of struggle will strike you as the most beautiful.



O LORD, thou art my father; i'm the clay, and thou my potter; and I the work of thy hand.

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