I hope you went through my posting. I am waiting to hear from ESAi leadrs

Below is a suggestion to the Exec-Team:

1. Create a Task Force to gather all the facts on this issue
my recommendation for the Task Force: ESATBoy, hkassa (has contacts since attended Bahir Dar University), Tayto, and Tranquil (already contacted the consulate office so maybe he/she can focus on what the government is saying about this)

2. After the Task Force has studied the facts and gathered all the info, advice the Exec-Team and ESAi on how to act on the matter. The Task Force should report back by 11/21.

Then at least we know ESAi will get the real facts from a group that's accountable to the organization and we can go from there.

teddy

Teddyted,

thanks for submitting a suggestion on a procedure for ESAi to use in this matter....you are dealing with an area that is near and dear to my heart

so, I cannot accept that nomination to a task force at this time of year, but I can provide a base list of questions that the task force could act upon and suggest sample conclusions that a letter can be formulated from.

again...a compilation of previous concerns.

1. What specific points of "unhygenic meals" can be presented as unsafe for the student body...we do have one explanation of the contaminated water that is served. Is this all that was presented? what exactly did the student's demand?

2. What exactly was the "goverment call to evacuate campus"? what does that procedure entail and how well did the "call" disseminate to the individual students? What measures were taken to allow students to evacuate campus with their basic personal belongings? There was no natural disaster or cause for emergency evacuation expressed anywhere. Was there any sit-down talk negotiations taken place before the "shut down"? If so, when and where?

3. Was there any abuse of a physical nature? Any injuries, fatalities, arrests? This would be most upsetting to me personally

4. Are there any university policies that students broke in the process of holding their peaceful protest!! And what is the govenment's exact reason/excuse for deciding to close the school? May be the government's spokes person's words (if any).

5. What demands were denied and why? What demands were fulfilled (if any)?


conclusions:
make a request for a solution that cannot be refuted....

ie., have a student on the board of student services or housing and dining services. or have a formal task force that will bring student leaders/class representatives and the appropriate administrators to the table to negotiate terms under which to continue university function without delay
(now somebody has heard that the university has reopenned...is this so?)

basically, ask for a formal procedure through which students can voice their demands to the administration without the threat of external involvement of government or police force. students and administration must agree on a safe and equitable system to handle issues.

new:
if students are left homeless, some refunds should be prepared for the cost of living/room & board that is going unused. the act of shutting down the university should bear a cost for the government that refunds all university students, the cost of their housing over the duration of the closure.


_________________
Nahom M. Beyene
University of Texas Alumnus
Stanford University Alumnus
University of Pittsburgh Doctoral Student
http://ras_nahom.homestead.com
http://ESATexas.homestead.com



Listen for knowledge....Observe for intellect....

Taytu,

yes we have stuff to discuss already....information to use for composing a letter...but I think ESAi must do better than that.

don't take the word solidarity so simply....we need to know what the students there are thinking before we can say we are in agreement with them.

I already see the human rights, safety, and potential some other flags in the story. Don't think I'm against the students, it's just that we need to verify the facts before we make claims.


Taytu,
Here's a way to understand the reserved approach:
If we send something out tomorrow with no or few facts to substantiate our concerns...our letter becomes more week

However, if we wait a bit longer and gather true facts about the happenings, then the ESAi letter will be respectable

The more effort we put into this, the more the impact of an ESAi letter will be in the future!!!


_________________
Nahom M. Beyene
University of Texas Alumnus
Stanford University Alumnus
University of Pittsburgh Doctoral Student
http://ras_nahom.homestead.com
http://ESATexas.homestead.com



Listen for knowledge....Observe for intellect....

u just did. did u want formal letter?


_________________
The first and most important step towards success is the feeling that we can suceed!

ESATboy,

You said,
“don't take the word solidarity so simply....we need to know what the students there are thinking before we can say we are in agreement with them.”

Shame on you! Over 2000 students are homeless, and you are splitting hairs.



“I already see the human rights, safety, and potential some other flags in the story. Don't think I'm against the students, it's just that we need to verify the facts before we make claims.”
I took my time and gathered the information all the relevant information.

Its very sad you questioning the credibility of the Ethiopian Free Press and the VOA.

All along you have been resisting on the problem.

I want you to answer the following
1) What kind of verifications do you need?
2) Did you listen to the four radio programs that I forward?
3) What have you done in your part to verify the facts?
4) Share with us your experience while you were a student in Ethiopia?

Honestly Taytu.....why don't you help just a little bit and get a clue about what's going on here.

I am not splitting hairs and I do not doubt the veracity nor the credibility of the sources you have presented.

Let's get to the point...there are two types of facts
1. facts that we know of
2. facts that we are still looking for (answers to at least 5 crucial questions that we must service)

Once these facts are collected in confidence, we may produce a statement. Without first verifying (enumerating) the facts, our statement is a waste of time, a waste of effort, and pretty much good for nothing. This is not what ESAi statements will be about....ESAi should just keep its mouth shut if it doesn't have anything intellegent/insightful to say. Anybody can speak truth, but we aim to speak change.

So, while the rest of the people contributing to this thread are searching for the facts, I will give you this question to answer. Are you about making a difference or about being visible? I ask you this because ESAi is the summed expression of its membership.

ESAi is about making a difference. When we are finally educated about the details surrounding the shutdown of Bahir Dar University, we will proceed to offer comments to the appropriate individuals and organizations about what should be done to prevent the shutdown of universities by the government. Our comments will naturally relate first to Bahir Dar University, but they will also extend to and relate to all other universities. Our recommendations must express that we have studied the events, understood the contributions to the occurance, and concluded our solutions in a very focused sense that maps directly to the individual contributors to the problems.

If the students have a complaint about food services....there needs to be a legal/accepted method for collecting and processing these complaints. The students should have a say on the method to ensure that it is truely effective.

If the students want to hold a protest, they must be provided with clear rules to follow in order to avoid any legal/police action against them.

If the government wishes to retain university shutdown as a measure of control, the students need to have a say on how this can be done safely and fairly if it must even be done at all.

We would be recommending things along these lines because they would be consistant with our belief that a government should never chose to shutdown a university. (and I assume that is our belief, but I don't even know that for sure yet)

For us to produce a statement means that we must be ready to participate in negotiations and resolution talks. This is what I want for us to be prepared for if we are going to issue a statement. Our statement would need to be respectable enough that we would be able to further advise people about our recommendations should they choose to follow them.

This is the only resistance that I'm showing Taytu.....I hope that you can see how we don't have anywhere near enough information to be advising others how to handle things. We can all sign a petition saying that what took place was unfair, unlawful, unkind, unsatisfactory, and so on.....but what do we recommend after that? somehow, be nicer, be fairer, don't upset us...is just not going to produce any positive change. I would rather sign on with the Ethiopian Human Rights Council than with ESAi for that kind of petition because at least they write up a case report and persue their own investigation to enumerate the facts of the matter. We are not here to duplicate their efforts, and any attempt by us to do so would just be............unbelievable. Our position must be one of student affairs relating to academic success, self-improvement, and professionalism/job placement. Clearly, academic success is only feasible through a functioning university. I'll leave it at that. No more justfications from me....I just want to review facts now.


_________________
Nahom M. Beyene
University of Texas Alumnus
Stanford University Alumnus
University of Pittsburgh Doctoral Student
http://ras_nahom.homestead.com
http://ESATexas.homestead.com



Listen for knowledge....Observe for intellect....

You sound naïve

you sound disruptive.

just curious as to how your comment is going to help further this discussion in the interests of the students at bahir dar university?


perhaps if we could refrain from personal attacks and unnecessary infighting we might be able to achieve something worhwhile.

ok guys... what about a task force? who wants to be in it? who wants to compile a winning argument? I volunteer to write the petition letter and pass it arround via email. but a supporting argument must be made. tayitu? esatboy and everyone else who expressed interest in here should be volunteering


_________________
The first and most important step towards success is the feeling that we can suceed!

My comment is that we need to be real and quick this is not time to talk about procedures and sh*t. I don't think it’s a personal attack, I am just saying he is not keeping it real. This sound almost like those Addis Ababa hospitals who request a letter from your Kebele to be admitted to the emergency room. If someone calls you and tells you that your brother back home is in jail would you worry about being political or what procedure to follow? Or is this nor personal enough. Our brothers and sisters are going through hell and we have to act fast is all what I am saying!

And Speech, learn to take criticism. I didn't mean to personally attack Esatboy, but just freely speaking. Isn’t that the beauty of free Speech?

why is everyone ignoring doing something about the issue and concetrating on exchanging words?


_________________
The first and most important step towards success is the feeling that we can suceed!

free speech is overrated via discussion forums, much like it is while having dinner with your grandparents. by this i mean there are always certain guidelines a child would need to follow in such a situation, such as not using the f word, being respectful at all times, this that or the other. anything other than that and the child would be counted as a shame to the family, etc. i feel like this metaphor should be applicable in terms of the way members ideally treat their discussion forums. in this specific situation what might have happened is that esatboy might have misinterpreted your manner of 'freely speaking' as a way of putting down his ideas of what he sees esai's role as being, and responded to you in a defensive manner. hence a block might have occured in open dialouge. if this is something that wouldnt have occured and i jumped the gun on labeling u disruptive, please forgive. wont happen again

that said, back to the university students. so can you think of another alternative to whats been outlined by newera, teddyted, and esatboy. and if so, how do you see it being implemented?

...from my understanding of the current situation at Bahar Dar Univ. the students have been asked to leave the campus, and are taking shelter in churches and with locals who will let them stay.

ESAi should be helping these students...isn't that what we stand for? This is not about politics or taking sides, we are students who have better opportunity than our peers back home. And we have a responsibility to help these kids.
It is not a NEW problem, there have always been complaints around inadequate food and healthcare for students in and outside Addis Univ. (So it is not something that was fabricated).

I am completely for the fact that we should keep ESAi a non-political association, yet this is again not about politics but about human rights. The right to healthy food and clean water. We cannot let these requests be base to shutting down a learning institution and leaving thousands of students’ homeless. We as Ethiopians cannot see students suffering from lack of basic necessities, and we defiantly can’t stand back and watch this happen to our peers. IT IS AN Acceptable and WE ALL HAVE TO TAKE A STAND. We can fundraise for these students, we can sign petitions to allow them to return to the institution....brain storm and come up with something....

Ok....so how are we going to coordinate to put them back in housing or provide some kind of shelter? I'm under the impression that 2000 Bahir Dar University students are without a place to live right now.

At the same time, there is at least one person claiming that they heard something about the university reoppening.

so do we raise money? is the current problem over?

either way, there is still a chance that this will happen again...perhaps a different university, but no procedures will be changed unless the government itself was displeased with the way they handled this. There is no way to know what the students need....so we send them money and then what? How does that help if the school is actually open now? All I see is us saying that putting students out in the street without shelter or food is WRONG...restricting student's from presenting their complaints to university administration is WRONG. So what do we propose/suggest? Is there any good solution?

Put yourself in government shoes....what can actually be done to fix the situation?

what are your suggestions
TANTU, TAYTU, how you want to do this....you still say we need to do something....at least I proposed exactly what I think we should do. It won't take anymore than one hour to bust out with a simple draft and post it up here. that's what happened last time (AAU riots). If you are too busy, then find somebody else to draft something, but please don't come in here claiming bureaucracy, slow to action, naivity, or what have you. I'm willing to expose what I don't know or do not understand because I know that while I am educated in public...others will have been educated because of me. Not by my knowledge, but by my willingness to give effort and then learn from my mistakes. When my mistakes are exposed in the light, others will not need to learn the same lesson on their own.

so, here are the answers to your questions Taytu


I need one or more sources that report the same explanation of a single fact. If possible, it would be optimal to have a contact among the students of Bahir Dar University to see if they agree.



No, I have not....but I will try to today....it would be helpful if you could put up a bullet of the main facts each radio program reported. What's the use of making everybody research the facts for themselves....simply writing up the facts in those reports gives you at least half of the content that you would need to write a statement on the matter


I'm leaving the verification of facts to members that are more knowledgeable about the school and more thorough than I with their news search. I don't know about all the premier sources for news in Ethiopia. Given that there are some that are more reputible than others, I'm sure that ESAi members can better sift through the facts than I can.


I have never been a student in Ethiopia....I was born and raised in Dallas, TX USA. My love for Ethiopia is unending.

I believe I can be most helpful in proofreading a statement, offering suggestions to be listed within such statement, and ensuring whether or not the statement is written in the right tone if the statement is to be published by ESAi (if it is not, then it is simply up to those that endorse the statement).[/quote]


_________________
Nahom M. Beyene
University of Texas Alumnus
Stanford University Alumnus
University of Pittsburgh Doctoral Student
http://ras_nahom.homestead.com
http://ESATexas.homestead.com



Listen for knowledge....Observe for intellect....